Light Wave Shift...

[Raphael]

This may be a strange question, but I'm trying to solve an anomaly in an experiment I've been working on.

Has anyone heard of a beam of light being shifted by another beam of light? In other has there been a case where a beam of light has "changed the direction" of another?

Please let me know. Thanks!

R

[cincirob]

I have read of interaction between light rays, but it is supposed to be rare and weak.

[CCC]

I know that light in fibreoptic cabling can interfere with other light... I think the mechanism there is that the beam of light changes to temperature of the waveguide slightly, which changes the index of refraction slightly, which alters the behaviour of other light beams for an instant or so, but I'm not quite sure.

Since the direction of the light in the cabling is constrained, the interference is seen in other factors, but I can easily imagine this same mechanism causing one beam of light to bend another slightly in (say) glass. I'm not sure it would work like this in air, but it just might. It certainly wouldn't work in vacuum.

[CANGAS]

In modern Quantum Physics model, magnetic field is composed of (virtual) photons. Just another word for "light".

Long time ago, Faraday reported that magnetic field causes change in polarization of light whizzing past magnet. Nearly 2 centuries ago, Faraday discovered that light (virtual photons) changes light (real photons).

[CANGAS]

For many centuries, it has been common knowledge that one ray or beam or whatever of light can interfere, either constructively or destructively with another ray or beam or whatever. This has resulted in the sighting of interference bands or fringes. They have been seen in interfereometers and other places too.

[CANGAS]

When we think of the phenomena of light diffraction as ray passes closely by edge of slit, we see that light is being affected by close passage to...What?

Light passes closely by atom of edge of slit. Huh? Light passes close by electric field of atom of edge of slit. What I say? What I say right now? I say that light passing by edge of slit is manhandled by virtual photons of electric field of atom in edge of slit.

What I say right now? What I say? I say see the passing photon with the red dress on! That passing photon can dance all night with the virtual photon of the electric field of the atom of the edge of the slit!

Virtual photon + real photon passing by = changed direction of passing photon. Oh tell me what I say right now. Tell me what I say. Oh. Ooo. Tell me what I say. Sing it to me, Ray.

[Raphael]

When we think of the phenomena of light diffraction as ray passes closely by edge of slit, we see that light is being affected by close passage to...What?

Light passes closely by atom of edge of slit. Huh? Light passes close by electric field of atom of edge of slit. What I say? What I say right now? I say that light passing by edge of slit is manhandled by virtual photons of electric field of atom in edge of slit.

What I say right now? What I say? I say see the passing photon with the red dress on! That passing photon can dance all night with the virtual photon of the electric field of the atom of the edge of the slit!

Virtual photon + real photon passing by = changed direction of passing photon. Oh tell me what I say right now. Tell me what I say. Oh. Ooo. Tell me what I say. Sing it to me, Ray.

Cangas, I agree with some of what you are saying, albeit from a different idea of what electron actually is, thereby a differing view of electric field. Also, from what I understand "Virtual Photons" as well as any other "Virtual" particle is nothing more than a mathematical "stop gap" when compiling equations. Are you suggesting that Virtual Photons are in fact real? If so, what are they in your opinion?

Regarding your song and dance, it's kind of creepy... Were you actually dancing and singing when you typed it?

R

[CANGAS]

When we think of the phenomena of light diffraction as ray passes closely by edge of slit, we see that light is being affected by close passage to...What?

Light passes closely by atom of edge of slit. Huh? Light passes close by electric field of atom of edge of slit. What I say? What I say right now? I say that light passing by edge of slit is manhandled by virtual photons of electric field of atom in edge of slit.

What I say right now? What I say? I say see the passing photon with the red dress on! That passing photon can dance all night with the virtual photon of the electric field of the atom of the edge of the slit!

Virtual photon + real photon passing by = changed direction of passing photon. Oh tell me what I say right now. Tell me what I say. Oh. Ooo. Tell me what I say. Sing it to me, Ray.

Cangas, I agree with some of what you are saying, albeit from a different idea of what electron actually is, thereby a differing view of electric field. Also, from what I understand "Virtual Photons" as well as any other "Virtual" particle is nothing more than a mathematical "stop gap" when compiling equations. Are you suggesting that Virtual Photons are in fact real? If so, what are they in your opinion?

Regarding your song and dance, it's kind of creepy... Were you actually dancing and singing when you typed it?

R

I am an eccentric hypergenius. Sometimes persons other than myself do not quickly understand what I say. Persons like you, who are rather slow to understand me, are very creepy to me.

Was not actually singing and dancing. Was imaginatively singing and dancing. Was inspired to remember famous Ray Charles song "What'd I Say". From late 1950s or early 1960s. Was inspired by thinking about your question about photon movement being altered by intervention of other photon.

Present day physics is composed of a damn lot of guessing dolled up in hyperbolic math and pretension. Quantum Physics explains electric field as being composed of virtual photons. Why am I having to repeat myself? Is it because you had trouble reading my first post? Why is that?

Why are you having such trouble understanding my original posts and then you bother me to explain to you what 1 +1 =?

[cincirob]

Raphael: Cangas, I agree with some of what you are saying, albeit from a different idea of what electron actually is, thereby a differing view of electric field. Also, from what I understand "Virtual Photons" as well as any other "Virtual" particle is nothing more than a mathematical "stop gap" when compiling equations. Are you suggesting that Virtual Photons are in fact real? If so, what are they in your opinion?

cinci: Nobody ever figures out very much of what CANGAS is saying so don't feel bad, or creepy. Virtual photons are more than a mathematical stop gap. Here is a nice answer to what they are: http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/quest ... icles.html
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[OZLOFT]

Raphael, invoking CANGAS, sees that "virtual photons" are mathematical sleight-of-hand

cinci: Nobody ever figures out very much of what CANGAS is saying so don't feel bad, or creepy. Virtual photons are more than a mathematical stop gap. Here is a nice answer to what they are: http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/quest ... icles.html
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The Clown our Cardinal refers to writes:

An example [of virtual photons] would be everyday electromagnetic interactions. You sit on your chair without passing through it because the chair exerts a force upon you (countering gravity). On the subatomic level, one can think of virtual photons being emitted and received between electrons from your atoms and the chair's atoms. These virtual photons carry the electromagnetic force.

Electromagnetic interactions between the molecules in wood can be by photon interactions - and the infrared photons forever passing between the molecules are examples of these. The existence of "static" centres of charge i.e. protons and electrons which are not photons, makes this an inconvenient method of explanation nevertheless. However, the carriers of electromagnetic force are real physically existing photons - they have no need to be "virtual", as opposed to the Clown's next example:

Another example would be a theoretical calculation of the lifetime of a B0 meson (particle composed of a bottom and down quark antiquark pair). The calculation agrees with experimental measurements only if the calculation includes virtual processes in which particles are created and absorbed in very short time scales.

The B0 meson is physically real, as far as I am aware (I might be wrong here) - but the quarks are not, so that any virtual process utilizing quark interactions certainly remains in the virtual i.e. abstract theoretical "field". No greater distinction between the two types of "photons" exists than these examples!
Yours faithfully,
OZLOFT

[cincirob]

OZ: Raphael, invoking CANGAS, sees that "virtual photons" are mathematical sleight-of-hand

cinci: Of course, you are going to present this mathematics and show us the sleight f hand part, right?
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OZ: W. Wester wrote: Another example......... - but the quarks are not, so that any virtual process utilizing quark interactions certainly remains in the virtual i.e. abstract theoretical "field". No greater distinction between the two types of "photons" exists than these examples!

cinci: First, I believe it was the SLAC (from memory) that probed protons to determine their structure and the result was the they appear to have three internal components which we call quarks. Unless you have done a more definitive experiment, I'd say you're just shooting in the dark here. Or you know about the experiment and hope nobody else does.
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[OZLOFT]

First, I believe it was the SLAC (from memory) that probed protons to determine their structure and the result was the they appear to have three internal components which we call quarks. Unless you have done a more definitive experiment, I'd say you're just shooting in the dark here. Or you know about the experiment and hope nobody else does.
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As usual, brandishing his ignorance like a flaming banner, Cinci the Clown rushes in where more circumspect Einsteinians would fear to tread!

The definitive experiments here were done by Alan Krisch at the University of Michigan who "demonstrated that protons have a far greater chance of being deflected in a collision when their spins are parallel" than when antiparallel. This contradicts the quark fantasy that the quarks would act independently within a proton. I.e. the quarks are a theoretical imposition upon the evidence, upon the true vortex-structure of the proton. Read Lerners' The Big Bang Never Happened p. 347 and Krisch's article in Scientific American from the early 1990s - and in this way your memory won't SLACken off any further!

Yours faithfully
OZLOFT

[CANGAS]

Actually, to Whom It May Concern; I have an open mind to all of science, and also, life, the universe, and, everything.

Virtual photons are an effective model in many circumstances. Many times I have been pondering a weak and weary physics theory and tried waves and got no good results. When I tried visualizing photons/virtual photons it made some sense. Of course, the opposite has also happened when waves permitted me to visualize what might be happening.

I presently believe that enough experiments have confirmed the real existence of virtual photons so that I am comfortable using virtual photons as a visualization crutch.

I think we must all remember that any and every model, be it virtual photons, mathematical formulas modeling a circumstance, or whatever, is only a model. A hundred years or two from now, an awful lot of our models may wind up replaced by new theoretical or experimental "proofs" of new ideas.

[CANGAS]

To drop back down out of Warp and more specifically address the thread topic: I was writing about the way in which the very commonplace phenomenon of diffraction is brought about.

A photon of light comes roving by. Photon is predestined to pass near by an edge composed of ordinary matter. Said edge is constituted of ordinary atoms having an ordinary net electric field. According to the Quantum Physics model, said electric field is defined as being an organized swarm of virtual photons. During close encounter of roving photon to said edge, roving photon has momentum altered. Most notable alteration is that unit vector of roving photon is modified. Roving photon leaves close encounter heading in new direction. New direction is result of dance of roving photon with virtual photon populating edge electric field.

Are all buffoons happy now? Buffoons have conned CANGAS into repeating original post and also teaching basic physics to people who should already know basic physics, if they had been paying attention in school.

[Leo]

Raphael, which experiment is it?